Brand & design evangelist Ms. Lulu Raghavan in conversation with Rtn. Renu Basu on her newly published book, Go Further, Faster: Shaping a Life That Matters.
Renu: I’m going to begin with your journey, before we get into the content of the book. You were a STEM child. STEM is better known in the last 12 years than it was when you were young. You excelled in your studies, juggling many roles as a young girl — dance, reading, sport, music, and later, your love for branding.
After you got married, you learned French and Spanish. How do you manage all that, and how did you manage it when you were younger?
Lulu: That’s a fantastic question. But first, good afternoon, everyone. It’s a real honour to be here. I was telling a few of you over lunch that this Rotary Club is extra special because my grandfather, Mr. S.D. Srinivasan, used to come here every Tuesday in the 1980s. We lived at Oval View near the Maidan, and he would walk from there to the Taj. He was so proud and never missed a Tuesday. He earned many awards for being a 100-percenter and was such a devoted Rotarian. When I was invited in 2021, it was a huge honour. So, I’m very happy to be here today — thank you.
Speaking of my grandfather, the answer to Renu’s question goes back to my genes and upbringing.
We are fortunate when the habits our parents instilled in us show up later in life. I was an early riser. We used to sleep by 8:30 or 9:00, which is hard to imagine nowadays! I had no trouble sleeping by 9:00, and by 5:15, our house would be like a train station, bustling with activity. I studied in the mornings and played sports after school. That routine, practised for so many years, became hard-wired into me. When I started working in the US, managing everything and learning to manage both time and energy became the secret to balancing it all.
As they say, “The arc of your day is the arc of your life.” If you want to achieve something, you have to make time for it each day. If you want to write a book, start by writing just 100 words a day. If you want to get stronger, start by lifting two pounds a day. Whatever the goal, it’s those small, consistent efforts that compound over time, making it seem like an overnight success. But it’s really those habits ingrained over time, for which I feel very blessed.
That’s wonderful because I see you all the time, and your job is no easy task. You have to convince people; you’re the custodian of whatever they’ve entrusted you with. That’s great.
What inspired you to write this book? It’s such a valuable source of wisdom and learning — even for me. I’m much older than you, but I believe there’s always something to learn from young people like you. So, tell me, because your book is about three key parts: balancing the mind, body, and soul; how to promote yourself; and how to keep evolving. Could you share with us the inspiration behind it?
Sure, that’s actually the most common question I get, even from my colleagues and bosses, so I’ve had time to reflect on it. I was conducting a lot of workshops on branding — how brands promote themselves, what they stand for, and how they signal to their audiences. About seven or eight years ago, I started talking about the concept of personal branding.
If any of you have read Tom Peters, the management guru, in 1987 he wrote a Fast Company article about “The Brand Called You” and how you need to be the CEO of your own brand, or the chief marketing spokesperson. In today’s world, not just on supermarket shelves but also in the workplace, hundreds of people compete for the same job. Even within organisations, there’s a lot of competition. So, how do you stand out? How do you ensure your work is noticed, and that you’re selected for opportunities? That’s where personal branding comes in.
However, Renu, I didn’t want people to think that personal branding is superficial or just about promoting your achievements. While that’s covered in the second part of the book, I’ve sandwiched it with two other important parts.
Part one is your foundation — habits that enable personal and professional growth. This is where the mind, body, and soul come into play: taking care of your mind, nurturing your body, and considering the soul, which includes emotional intelligence, kindness, and gratitude.
Part two is about promoting yourself using branding principles.
Part three is the realisation that life is a journey, not a destination. It’s a reminder, especially to young people, that while this book could serve as a blueprint, you need to start thinking about these things when you’re much younger. I like to think of the book as something I wish my parents had given me when I started my career.
You work hard, attend great schools, and eventually join large organisations or start your own venture, but no one really guides you professionally. I envision the book as a structured guide to professional development from a friend, written in a very accessible tone — or at least that’s what I think.
Yeah, like somebody in the audience mentioned, it was such easy reading. I had presented the book to her daughter, but the mother loved it. Ah, that’s sweet. So, you know what happens to many people, and I’m sure you all will agree or not agree, but sometimes, in your journey at work, like you said, you wish your mother or your father had given you that book. I wish I had got this book, because you expect people to recognise you. Women don’t like to ask for anything, and they refer to it in the book as well. Whereas men are more focused on demanding, women are very shy and prefer to stay below the radar. So, how can organisations — this is, of course, for us, the readers — start looking at the softer skills of people? Because a lot of people go unnoticed.
From an organisational perspective, especially after COVID, the whole notion of who a leader is and what kind of person makes a good leader has changed quite fundamentally. Before, there was very much an alpha male archetype of a leader, where vulnerability was a complete no-no. Empathy and kindness were not traits discussed at a leadership level. But today, that construct has changed entirely because power is now in the hands of employees. If your organisation and you as a leader don’t treat people kindly and lack those softer skills, it’s very easy to lose some of the best talent.
So, I think from an organisational perspective, that’s important. Individuals in organisations, Renu, whether we like it or not, can’t sit in a corner, do great work, and expect that work to be recognised. That simply doesn’t happen because everyone is busy, there’s a sea of sameness, and there’s overcommunication. It’s very difficult to stand out with anything. Even those in advertising will tell you that getting a message through to audiences is extremely challenging.
Today, organisations are actually approaching leadership branding very seriously — how to brand CEOs, how the leadership team can have a voice in the industry and be known — because all of this helps the organisation in achieving its objectives. And, of course, from the perspective of culture, creating a culture that’s inclusive, diverse, and allows every employee to feel like they belong and are making meaningful contributions represents a sea change from how companies operated 10 years ago.
I mean, it’s got better — much better now, thankfully. So, I want to move to another question regarding this, because it will be inclusive. I know you’ve been asked this question before. What keeps you going? Very often, men and women have different views towards their careers. Having said that, you have only focussed on women. Why not men? There’s so much for men to learn from the book as well. I found that perhaps because I am a woman, I was identifying with it. But I think there’s a lot that men can learn from this book. So, could you shed some light on that?
As in marketing, the more focussed you are, sometimes the broader the appeal, right? While you have a very clear target audience in mind, for me, my centre of gravity was young women in the workplace between the ages of 20 and 30. They’ve just started working, are very ambitious, want to get ahead and make a mark, but may lack the tools, structure, or training that large organisations often provide. That’s what I had in mind, Renu. But somehow, I guess, some of the lessons or learnings have become universal.
When I first got the contract from Bloomsbury, I sent it to many publishing houses and got rejected by quite a few, as you should know. But the editor at Bloomsbury, Paul Kumar, who read the book, said, “Wow, we love it. We’ve all read it, and if a crusty old man like me got something out of it, then we’re golden.” So, he said, “Please don’t restrict the title, the design, or anything to be too specific.” There are some elements tailored towards women because my strength is mentoring young women and helping women leaders rise, but we haven’t limited the book to just women.
Thanks for that. So, I’m sure most of you have seen this lovely colour. I associate Lulu with yellow because she’s like sunshine wherever she goes. So, the cover is very interesting, as is the title. What was the thought behind it?
Thank you for asking that question. I started my career at Landor, developing product names and company names. I began in the US, and distilling the essence of a company to a name is quite a challenging task, but I really enjoyed it. So, I think very conceptually. When I started putting the concept of the book together, I had been exposed to a lot of design thinking. In design thinking, they teach you how to prototype what you want to create. So, I was imagining this book — I mocked up a cover, fake endorsements, and a chapter outline, because I was envisioning what it could be. And I said, “I’ve got to crack the title as well.”
Going back to what I said earlier — I wish I had known these things earlier so I could have accelerated my career. I stumbled upon many of the things I’ve written about in the book, like reading, writing, connecting the dots, giving and receiving feedback, emotional intelligence, etc. If I’d known these things earlier, I might have achieved a lot more in my career.
Now, the thing is, some younger people mistake these ideas for hacks. But there are no hacks here. It’s just that if you start developing these habits earlier in life, you can go further. It’s all about the concept of compound interest — start young, and it really helps as you get older.
I loved the bit about compounding as well. I have so many questions, so I’ll keep an eye on the time. But I want to compliment you on being so candid about being vulnerable. I think it’s okay to be vulnerable, but many people are taught not to show their vulnerabilities to their boss or colleagues.
I found this very refreshing and really nice. Could you share a bit about being vulnerable and how it doesn’t really matter?
Actually, it came very naturally to me. I wrote from the heart. I have to say, after publishing it, I didn’t share the book with anybody in my family. I didn’t want their feedback. And my dad read it after it had been published. He was horrified. He said, “You’ve confessed so much. Are you sure you really wanted to do that?” I think he’s from a different generation. He was like, “Why have you talked about all of these things that you did incorrectly, or about things that you wish you could have changed?” But somehow, maybe it’s the age that we live in now. To connect more deeply with people, you have to be authentic rather than make something up. And so that came naturally to me. But I have to say, people do seem extremely surprised that I have been very, very vulnerable in the book. But I think that’s what has enabled me to connect with younger people a lot more because they can cut through all the pretence.
I’m going to quote from somebody you look up to, and you have to guess who she is.
“An important attribute of success is to be yourself. Never hide what makes you.”
So, who said that?
Is that Indra Nooyi?
Yes, authenticity is a key factor in whatever we do, and I think it’s very, very important. I was also very vulnerable and had some career gaps. Sometimes people get passed over. So, it’s very important to be authentic when you’re building your personality, and therefore your brand. It’s about being genuine and true to yourself. So, why should people be authentic? Because you do come across people who are not.
Well, I think that’s the only way to stand out today. If you think about the opportunities you want to get, whether it’s a job opportunity, a collaboration with another company, or something else you’re pursuing, that connection happens when there is a true exchange of your value proposition or what you stand for with the other person. So, your best bet is to be yourself because there’s nobody else like you. Somehow, I don’t know, we’re trained to mimic what others like or to be the way someone wants us to be. But I think our generation, and maybe the younger kids today, find it extremely tiring to always be someone they’re not. There’s greater acceptance of different kinds of personalities and professions, which we never had the liberty to explore. Even though I’m not that old, I wasn’t allowed to pursue anything other than maths and science. And look where I am today, right? Very far from that. I think there’s a lot more acceptance now, and everyone is unique. There’s a real opportunity to play up that uniqueness rather than suppress it and blend into the sea of sameness.
You also speak about gratitude being the best attitude. I think that’s important because people are always wanting more — they’re never happy and are constantly whining. So, what makes you like that? Is it spirituality, or is it just you?
I wasn’t always like that, I have to say. I’ve confessed to being quite selfish at times, especially as an only child. Gratitude came to me strongly, especially during COVID, you know, with everything happening around us. I was too focussed on what wasn’t happening for me, a bit too self-absorbed, and things weren’t going well at work. There was tension at home because of COVID, as I’m sure everyone experienced. Landor gave us access to a counsellor based in Hong Kong, and we had free weekly sessions with her. This wonderful lady, Louise Corbett, who’s actually contributed to my book, taught me the practice of waking up and writing down 10 things you’re grateful for every morning. It sounds really clichéd — like, what am I grateful for? Sometimes she’d say, even if you’re not grateful for much, say you’re grateful to be alive. Say you’re grateful that your parents are healthy, that you have a loving husband, or that your children listen to you, or whatever it is. And, Renu, you won’t believe it — it took maybe four to five months, but the practice of doing that daily slowly shifted my energy and my orientation. I realised how powerful it is to focus on what you have rather than what you don’t. Whether you’re a CEO striving to achieve more, or a leader looking at your team, I’ve learned that being grateful for the strengths people bring to the table, or for what you have, fosters a mindset of abundance and generosity, rather than thinking in a limited or negative way. The notion and attitude of gratitude can be applied in many ways.
Absolutely, because sometimes, you know, one tends to get a little sceptical or cynical, and then you have to say, “No, no, no, don’t go down that path at all.” I think that’s really beautifully articulated in your book. There are so many great points. Now, since you are an evangelist, I would love for you to share with everyone who hasn’t read the book the difference between brand and branding, because people often get confused.
Yes, yes. One simple way to think about it is that the word “branding” includes both brand and branding. A brand is the meaning or associations — what you want something to stand for. Take the Rotary, for instance. The brand is what the Rotary stands for, what you want it to represent, and the associations people have with it. Branding, on the other hand, is the signalling system. So, everything from the Rotary’s identity to its colours, key messages, events, and the feeling of a Rotary event, as well as the kinds of sponsorships Rotary does—all of these are signals of what the Rotary stands for. So, brand is the meaning or story, and branding is how you signal that story to your audience.
Thank you. I mean, we tend to take it for granted that we know it all, but you’ve reinforced that really well. You’ve been an avid reader, and reading is going out of fashion. But I know there’s a movement in America to bring people back to libraries. I know there are people in this room who read, but how do you encourage reading and journaling? It’s very difficult to write things down, and you’ve explained it really well. Could you share with us what drove you to reading, aside from being an only child?
Actually, I’ve shared my journey in the book. I was quite a tomboy, and my mum, who worked for Macmillan for a while, had all these books. She’d always say, “You must read, you must read.” But I never wanted to — I just wanted to be outside playing tennis or football with all the boys in the building. Reading wasn’t appealing to me at all. But she instilled it in me so much that it came back to me when I was in college, Renu. I think that’s when the penny dropped, so to speak. One of the first books I read was about Steve Jobs’s journey, and in it, he asked John Sculley, “Do you want to continue selling sugared water, or do you want to change the world?” That really gripped me. From then on, I started reading more, especially during college, and I’ve continued since.
How many books have you read? Your book references so many authors — I’d love to know how many you’ve read in total!
I have no idea. I’d probably have to do a McKinsey consultant-like calculation, taking into account the number of years I’ve lived and the average number of books I’ve read each year!
You’ve spoken about bouncing back from failure. How would you advise people here on how to bounce back from failure?
I quoted one of our founders, Rodney Fitch, who famously said, “Wake up, dress up, and show up.” There’s a lot of value in that resilience and perseverance — in showing up every day and soldiering on. It’s difficult when you experience setbacks because they consume you, and we tend to live in our interior world so much. I’ve said in the book that you can give yourself 48 hours to brood, to feel like the worst has happened to you, no matter the situation. But after that, you need to find the courage to embrace the day and seek energy in something else.
One of the easiest ways to do this is by helping others. Organisations like the Rotary allow you to get involved with the community, which helps get you out of your own head and out of that self-absorbed space, regardless of what’s happened. I’ve written about movement, exercise, breathing, and hydration — all of which help shake off mental setbacks. Now, of course, people go through a lot, and this isn’t to discount anything, but for those who want to try, there are many tools at your disposal to help you move forward. But a lot of it is about that daily mindset of showing up and getting on with what needs to be done.
Now, I’ll quickly move to the second part of your book, which is about the five Ds of personal branding.
So, for those of you familiar with design or design thinking, you may know about the four Ds or the design methodology. I adapted that and developed the five Ds of personal branding.
The first D is discovery. Before you can think about what makes you unique, you’ve got to discover your strengths. I’ve outlined a number of methods for discovering your “x-factor” — what’s really unique and special about you. Some people know it immediately, but most find it difficult to articulate. So, discovering your x-factor is the first step.
The second D is defining. In marketing and branding, we call it positioning, a value proposition, or brand strategy. How do you define what it is that you stand for? I’ve shared some frameworks for doing that.
The third D is designing, which is about starting to signal your brand to the world. Is there a tagline you use in terms of what you stand for in your profession or beliefs? For example, Oprah Winfrey famously says, “You can be anything you dream of being.” That mantra guides everything she does. So, that’s the third D — design.
The fourth D is deploying. If you’re looking for opportunities, is it your website, an ebook, or a published book? How do you deploy tools to get your personal brand out there?
The fifth D is delivery. At the end of the day, showing up consistently and clearly with commitment is how you build a brand over time. No brand is built overnight — it takes effort. So, if you shape your brand from a young age, a very clear value will become associated with your name.
For example, Sanjeev Saran, whom many of you know, has intuitively built a very strong brand with clear associations over the years. It’s taken a while, but he’s consistently dressed up, shown up, and done what he stands for. That’s a great example of personal branding built over time.
So, those are the five Ds: discover, define, design, deploy, and deliver.
I found that framework very good, but you have to spend a lot more time sitting down at the table to decide. That’s why this book is going out to a lot of young people. And then, you’ve also spoken about “gentle force” as a personal brand, and that describes you.
You’re a gentle force.
You know, my former CEO, Jane Garrity — she’s our global CEO — one day, she said to me, “You know, Lulu, you need to unlock your superpower.” I think she had just come out of coaching with a big leadership coach, and they were saying that if you don’t know what it is about you as a leader that sets you apart, then you’re not operating from that place of strength. She said, “Whatever you come up with, there needs to be some sort of tension between these two words.” And you won’t believe it, Renu, but it took me more than a year of pairing different words to figure out what was right for me. It took me a year of throwing out many different combinations of words to people who knew me. How did I finally arrive at “gentle force”? “Force,” for me, was the direction, the energy, the drive, the desire to get ahead — the strength.
But I believe that my personality is also much more grounded. If I can say, a little bit more humble, gentler, and kinder — that’s my personality. And when I shared it with Jane, she rejected many. But when I told her, “What do you think of me as a gentle force?” she said, “Love it. Now just operate as it is.”
Okay. No, because I mean, I’ve known you for so long. You did a lot of work for Taj, then Indian Hotels, and you put a lot of rigour into it, you know? And you dealt with everybody very well. It wasn’t just the senior people — you dealt with Mr. Krishnakumar as well as everyone involved in that exercise. So, I’m going to come back to that later. I’d like one example of your journey with Indian Hotels because everybody lives at the Taj on Tuesday, but I’ll come to that.
Then there’s another word I had never come across. I know Sanjiv Mehta very well. The word “humbition” — I just love that. I think you should really enlighten us.
Sure. Yeah. So, I used to write a newsletter called Ideas to Play With, where it was one idea a week for personal and professional growth. So, I was always searching for ideas. And one time, I was reading an article in the newspaper, and it was Sanjiv Mehta, former CEO of Unilever, who talked about this concept of “humbition” — humbleness and being humble but also being ambitious.
And of course, humility and ambition, right? The combination, he said, is extremely powerful. Of course, you need to be ambitious — it’s about getting ahead, winning, and being a leader — but you can’t do it at the cost of others. You couldn’t do it by being arrogant. You couldn’t do it by letting your ego get in the way. There’s a very important place for humility, which is essential to staying grounded. When I researched more, I realised that it was actually somebody at IBM in the 1960s who originally created this concept because a lot of the engineers there were extremely arrogant. They wanted to introduce the concept of humility in the workplace, which was very important. So, humbition.
You’ve mentioned that in your book, but I would really like you to articulate in person three things to your younger self. You alluded to it in our conversation, but what three things would you say to your younger self?
I mean, one thing I would say is, you know, leave the ego at the door. Sometimes we do think we’re great, whatever we might have achieved at a young age, but ego truly gets in the way. I’ve shared some examples in the book where my ego got in the way and really let me down. So, keeping your ego in check is extremely important. The second thing I would say is that work is not everything. When you join a large organisation or a blue-chip company, you sacrifice so much for work, even as an entrepreneur. But actually taking care of yourself holistically is super important. I didn’t realise that until much later. So, work is not everything — you need to have side passions and side hustles, which is why I was very worried about writing this book. You know, being in the position I’m in, I wondered, will my company get upset? Is this something they would be proud of or not? But all my bosses loved it. They’re like, “Oh, yeah, we love that you have the side hustle of being a writer.”
So, having those passions, outside of work, also makes you a more interesting person. I wish I’d done that earlier.
I thought you were always interesting, you know.
I know, but you know, when you start work, you give up all of it, Renu. You used to work until 10 pm. I don’t know how you did it, right? You want to be a workaholic. Don’t be a workaholic. That’s something I also learnt. And then the third thing I would say is, even when you’re younger, look at who’s coming up below and promote others. You know, lift people up. A lot of times, when you’re rising in an organisation, you think it’s all about yourself. But by helping others rise, you can rise much faster.
Just to come back to ego — very early in people’s careers, whether in the corporate world or in other relationships, ego comes in the way. That’s one of the biggest disasters — people lose out in the long run. I think you’ve really written about it very well. And what about playing it forward — three things to your older self?
I would say slow down and savour the moment, because I do think a lot of times we are propelling towards some vision, some future state that we want, without fully enjoying the moment or the present, I’d say.
The second is to spend more time with your family and friends. Again, the sacrifices you have to make to ensure that you’re giving them that time.
And the third is about longevity — having the same energy in your 60s and 70s that you have in your 40s and 50s. Taking care of yourself holistically — all the exercise, healthy eating, everything that needs to be done.
Because none of that starts suddenly — you don’t get to 60 or 70 and realise you have an issue. It started in your 40s or 30s, with habits that I began the conversation with. So really thinking about those things, and I’m more conscious of it. I’ve had my fair share of all the naughty things I’ve done and continue to do, but being aware of how they impact your health is important.
Thank you. Just one last one, I can’t resist. So, would you share the story of the Ladies of Landor?
Oh, that’s sweet. So, when I set up Landor in India in 2008, it was originally just me, and we had a really wonderful brand architecture strategy project with the Taj Group. You know, the Taj brand had been very badly stretched, from three-star to seven-star, which had compromised the ability of the Taj brand to be differentiated and charge $1,000 or more at the palaces, etc., because even if you went to Nashik or Madurai, it was the Taj. And then foreigners, especially, were asking, “What is the Taj?” So, that whole project was done where different brands were created for different segments of the market: Ginger, Gateway Hotel, Vivanta by Taj, and Taj.
But in the initial years of Landor, it was all women — young, ambitious, and very smart brand strategists and designers. And when we went to the —
It’s relatively new to India as well, you know? Yes, and one of them is here.
Yeah, Sherebanu was there in the early part of Landor. We had meetings at Indian Hotels with Mr. Raymond Bickson, who was the CEO, and Mr. R. K. Krishnakumar, who was the vice-chairman, and even Mr. Tata. Mr. Tata was there at some of our meetings, and when Mr. Krishnakumar saw these young women, he would say, “Oh, here come the Ladies of Landor.” So, that’s the story. And then, of course, I was given the memo the other way around: “You need to have diversity, Lulu.” Usually, people are on the receiving end of that.
Yeah, but the Ladies of Landor brought sunshine into our office at Oxford House, which was quite dreary. So, thank you so much, Lulu. I have a lot more questions, but I think we’re running out of time, and I’d love to give some time for questions.
Rotarians Ask
How much of a part does Vedanta and your study of the Vedanta, along with your interaction with Vedanta, play? And, if you don’t mind, when can I expect your audiobook?
So, I’m actually not a Vedanta scholar. My father is a Vedic scholar, but I haven’t studied Vedanta myself — perhaps it’s something I will do later in life. However, just through reading and the way our lives have unfolded today, a lady called Arianna Huffington was quite instrumental in making me realise that body, mind, and soul are deeply interconnected. Dignity Foundation — that’s the organisation run by my mother — met a doctor from Florida called Dr. Roger Landry. He wrote a book called Live Long, Die Short, and in that book as well, the connection between body, mind, and soul is discussed quite a lot. I thought it was a very important message to bring to the corporate world.
You know, we talk about developing the mind — all the learning and training we do. Now, body health has become quite important, with companies running wellness programmes, etc. And then the third element, the softer skills — the soul aspect — is something that isn’t so widely talked about.
To answer your second question, I’m convincing Bloomsbury to do an audiobook. They’ve promised to look into it. They’ve just released the Kindle version, so I’m very happy that my friends globally can finally access the book. I’ll let you know when the audiobook is available.
I had a question regarding when you spoke about how, as a leader, you must play to your strengths… But I’m still struggling to understand what my strength is in the digital design space, so could you please talk about some ways in which one can try to understand or find their strengths in this field?
Yes, such an excellent question. It’s lovely to see so many designers in the room, especially younger people — that’s great. I’m sure you can relate to some of the stories since my profession has been in branding and design.
I’ve spoken about how you should tap into the knowledge of your colleagues, family, friends, and people who know you — how they see you operate. Sometimes, you may not realise yourself what your strengths are. Perhaps you’re great at articulating things, or getting to the heart of the matter, or you have a wonderful energy and warmth. I’ve discussed doing a 360-degree survey with people in your ecosystem, and you’ll start to see patterns in how people perceive you.
Of course, there’s also the way you see yourself. I’ve borrowed the construct from psychology called the Johari Window and used that to hone in on your strengths. Your story and personal brand can then emerge from some combination of your strengths.