Insights from the Frontlines of Business with Tanvir Gill
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It’s so good to be here, and thank you very much for inviting me for this session.
I started my career back in 2005 with CNBC TV18. I was with CNBC TV18 for roughly about five years. Then, I did about eight to nine years with ET Now in India, and I was just like, you know, what do I do next? Has there been a time where an Indian journalist, born and brought up in India, has ever been given a chance in an international newsroom? And I kept thinking: can I break into the international scene? Can I really get into an international newsroom — mainstream anchor?
And I remember that at that time I had watched this reel on Instagram by Priyanka Chopra and she said, when she moved to Hollywood — and I know it’s a tall order to compare — but still, when you’re aspiring to achieve something, when you’re ambitious in life, you gain a lot of inspiration from people who’ve already been there and done that. So, she said in that video, when she moved to Hollywood, she said to one of her organisers — or whatever, agents — that “Look, I’m not going to take a side role. I’m going to move to the US, and I’m going to move to Hollywood only and only if I get a lead role.” And that’s how she landed Quantico.
So, I thought, this is interesting. I should kind of hold my ground and negotiate and try and work out a deal as a lead anchor with an international newsroom. And I was like I’m at ET Now here in India, so what better place can I go to but CNBC International — my alma mater in India, and they’re obviously the parent company overseas.
Now, there’s a difference — I just want to also clarify — CNBC TV18 in India is not the original CNBC, so it’s a co-branding tie-up where CNBC has lent its brand to TV18, the Network18 group which is run by Reliance now. So CNBC International was a completely different ball game and a completely different entity.
I went to London. I met the boss of CNBC International. I said, “Oh, how does it work in the newsroom out here?” And he showed me around everything. And then we sat down, and I said, “OK, so if I needed a job, how much of my Indian accent would be a problem?” And he just stared at me, and he’s like, “Are you asking for a job as a lead anchor?” I said, “Yeah. I want to be reporting from the international studio — either in London, Singapore, Hong Kong or the US. What would it take?” And he just had this notebook open — he turned it around and said, “Tell me your designation. Tell me the compensation you expect, and where you want to be based and what you want to cover.” And literally, that very moment, Priyanka Chopra’s reel played out in my mind, and I was like, I want to be a lead anchor — I’m not going to go as a reporter.
Then I wrote my compensation which of course I’m not going to share with you. And then, of course, the details of my work profile and stuff like that. And he looked and said, “Why don’t you come back for a screen test?” So, I went for a screen test, and clearly, I hit it out of the park because they really liked me. And they said, “OK, fine. You know, there’s a show called Street Signs Asia, based in Singapore. We think that you have the domain expertise, understanding India, so you can take that overseas. We’ve never had an Indian anchor talk about India in the context of what’s happening with global markets, so that’ll be useful for us. Why don’t you come on board and let’s take it from there?”
And this was back in 2019. So, I moved to Singapore with my parents. And it was a great experience. I’ve been in Singapore for six years and it’s been such a steep learning curve. I mean, I can’t even explain the kind of exposure, knowledge, and domain expertise I have built in covering Asia-Pacific markets. Earlier, it was just about India and looking at the world from India’s lens. Now, I’m looking at India from the world’s lens. And that’s been a game changer.
I’ve come back to India, by the way. I’ve quit CNBC International. I’m back home. I just arrived five days ago, so I didn’t have time to prepare because I’m still relocating and setting my base back home here in Mumbai. But it’s been interesting, and I think a large part of why Satyan wanted me to do this was because obviously, through this journey, I have been able to interview a lot of global, influential speakers — whether they’re business leaders, global CEOs, or big investors like Warren Buffett or, even for that matter, macroeconomic experts — people who look at the economy, markets, policy, politicians.
So, I interviewed Prime Minister Mahathir from Malaysia while he was in power, in just my first three months at CNBC International. It was like hitting the ground running, really, once I joined CNBC International. And the only way you learn at CNBC is by jumping into the deep end of the ocean and learning how to swim. So yeah, it’s been a great experience.
I think the turning point in my career was interviewing Warren Buffett when I was still in India, in 2017. That interview changed the game, because at CNBC International — globally — Warren Buffett does everything. So, when I joined CNBC International, they actually treated me like royalty because many of them, many of the senior-most anchors at CNBC Global, had never interviewed Warren Buffett. Having Warren Buffett on my CV made a big deal. And the fact that I had a relationship with him and his team — that I’m still in touch with them — obviously was a feather in my cap.
I did post a few weeks ago before leaving CNBC International, highlighting what I really learned from all my big interviews. So, I’ve interviewed David Solomon, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, Satya Nadella of Microsoft, Shaktikanta Das, and a lot of policymakers. Many important and relevant speakers from Europe, from China, from Asia, from Korea, from Japan — the list is pretty endless. Like, I can’t even recollect right now. But yeah, a lot of important speakers — Howard Marks from the markets, if any of you are from the financial markets in India or overseas.
So, all those experiences just added up to me getting more perspective about what it is really like to interview these stalwarts. And I put out a post on LinkedIn highlighting my five learnings from these big interviews. So, one of them was: if you are nervous about going into an interview — any interview, any conversation — that’s okay. And the best way to address that nervousness is accepting it to yourself and to the other person and making light of the situation, because many a times, both sides are nervous, right? And that just builds up, and you’re like, “Oh, how do I break into this conversation? How do I break the ice?”
Well, breaking the ice is as simple as saying, “I’m really nervous,” and, you know, sometimes it really works. And I’ll give you the example of David Solomon. And I was like, ‘this is the CEO of Goldman Sachs. Oh my god.’ I was like breaking my head all night: the golden rule, asking, I have only 16 minutes — and 16 minutes can be stretched out to max 20 — and I have my questions ready, and I have to make it seem very, you know, very easy, very fluid, very conversational, because CNBC is very big on conversational interviews.
And so, I was really fretting over that. And when I came in and he joined me, when the interview started, I remember him telling me, “So, what are some of the questions that you have for me?” And I was like, “Well, I can’t discuss questions because CNBC International doesn’t share questions, but I can tell you the broad topics that we want to touch upon.” So, he’s like, “OK, fine, tell me the topics.” And he seemed so nervous. So that was actually very, very humbling, because here is the CEO of Goldman Sachs. He talks to people all the time. It was really reassuring to know that even at that level, he was very grounded. He had — he wanted to make that connection.
After the conversation got over, he told me, “How did it go?” And that’s literally what every guest has asked me — including Satya Nadella and even Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad. After an interview has gone over, they’ve always asked me, “How did you think it went?” And I was like, “You’re asking me how that went?” I was like, “Yeah, it went fine. It was great.”
And so that just made me realise that we are all nervous. We all have insecurities and some level of consciousness when it comes to saying something on camera, because it’s on record. And every leader wants to present himself in the right light, with the right image, with the right messaging going out. So that’s just one point that came to my mind.
My second big learning from my big interviews was: prepare, prepare, prepare. And I’ll give you an example. The night before I had to interview Warren Buffett, it was just 15 minutes. They gave me 15 minutes, and I had about, well, 15–20 odd questions. I was so nervous, I did not sleep a wink the entire night. And there was the local daily in Omaha that carried the story: what was the big deal? She was just interviewing Warren Buffett for 15 minutes. Why was she so nervous? And why did she not sleep the whole night?
Because in my head, it was Warren Buffett. I mean, how many people have interviewed Buffett? And at last count, I think — if I remember correctly — less than 10 journalists in his entire life would have interviewed Warren Buffett in person, right? So, to get that personal space, to build that rapport, I was like, “OK, how will I break the ice with him? How will I, you know, be able to build that chemistry so that the interview looks engaging and interesting for the viewer?”
And he was so down to earth, first and foremost. I must tell you — he didn’t even ask for the questions. He didn’t even ask for topics. His team told me: “He will take the questions in real time.”
So that was very, very reassuring, because I think he really values the principles of journalism at its very core. So, I really like that. So, prepare, prepare, prepare was my second big learning because I thought the fact that I put in those many hours really helped me bring out a good interview.
It will never be a perfect ten. If you’re going into a conversation thinking, “Oh, this is going to be like bang-on at every level,” it is not going to be that — neither for the viewer, nor for you, nor for the guest involved. So I think it’s just: relax and take a chill pill when you’re interviewing big guests, because if you put that pressure there — “Oh, I need to crack it to the very T, and everything has to work to perfection,” it will just put unnecessary pressure and take the joy out of the interview.
So that was something that stayed with me through all my interviews. And yeah, many people ask me for my opinion. I’m sure we’re going to have a Q&A session now where you’re going to be asking for maybe my perspective on what people are thinking overseas about India. If I say I don’t know, don’t take it personally, because sometimes I really don’t know. You know, there are so many moving parts to a story. I’d rather be honest with people when it comes to my perspective than say, “Oh, such and such is happening and I think this is how things are going to move and this is how things are going to play out,” and honestly, what I’m doing is just constructing some sentences and making sense — because we all know English, we all understand English — so I’m just, you know, making some comments out there.
So, if you don’t know something, saying, “I don’t know,” is a powerful opinion. And saying, “Oh, I’ll come back to you with my thoughts once I have a better understanding of the situation” — that honesty goes a far, far way in establishing a good, strong relationship with a lot of my guests.
So, a lot of my guests, whether it’s Howard Marks, Ray Dalio, Mr. Buffett — all these people — I still have relations with them today, primarily because whenever we talk, we speak very honestly. And I think it just makes for a stronger relationship, professionally speaking.
And then, of course, lastly, enjoy the experience. I’ve had a great time interviewing these stalwarts. Just having that personal space with them for whatever it is — 15 minutes, 30 minutes — it was so great to meet Satya Nadella and talk to him about his family, his son, who unfortunately is no more, you know, expressing my condolences, his views about Asia-Pacific sitting out in the US, talking about his years in India as the son of a diplomat — I think all of these things just add up and enrich your life experience.
So, I always tell people: just sit back and enjoy the experience. You’ve done your preparation, and the interview’s lined up and you must go live, and it’s very high pressure. But try to breathe easy and enjoy the experience as well, because that also helps.
So yeah, that’s been my journey in short. And I’m back home in India. I have no clue what I’m going to do next, but I think it’s a good starting point, right? No clue on what I’m going to do next. But thank you so much for giving me this time to speak to you and giving me the opportunity to share my experience — my career experience — with all of you. Thank you very much.
ROTARIANS ASK
Have you ever thought of interviewing a person from the street? Because all these big names will never give a correct answer, because they have something to lose. So to balance that, have you thought of getting a nuanced view from someone else? And secondly, since you are also a market kind of a person yourself, what do you follow — technical or what you call intrinsic kind of approach to investing? Or, what is your instinct thought process?
So, I think, at CNBC International, we were not allowed to invest in the markets except via mutual funds and ETFs. And they are very, very stringent about the disclosure norms. So, my exposure to the markets has really been mutual funds and ETFs, which is, of course, a long-term game. The first question — yes, it would be great to understand what the average person out there or a small investor is thinking about the market. I do give a lot of credence to them, because I think the market is an aggregation of all these views, right, which are sometimes not encapsulated as well, but they… all the small investors actually constitute and make the market more than the big investors. They may be putting in the money, but the aggregation of opinion that drives the market really comes from the small investors. So yes, it’s a point very well taken that we should have more small investors on the show. But I’ll be very honest with you, sir — the thing is that the influential speakers get a lot of views. They set the tone, right? People want to learn from them.
Like, I’ll give you the example of Ray Dalio. I don’t even have to listen to his interview to know what he’s going to say. He’s going to say, “Have 5% exposure to gold.” He’s going to say, “We are in a debt deficit cycle which is going to blow up one day.” And he’s made those points many times. But every time you put up his interview with the same points — it’s called repeat value, right? Repeat value has some value. His videos go viral each time. He’s largely saying the same thing in the context, right? But his videos go viral. So, in that sense, there’s a big following that you can’t take away from. These small investors follow these big investors because obviously, they’ve made a lot of money, and a lot of small investors want to become big investors. So, we go editorially where it makes sense in terms of really getting in that viewership and delivering to the viewers what they would want to hear — and they would want to hear from the big investors, if you get my point.
How come you quit your journey in Singapore, and it was so interesting. And what brings you back home and not any other city?
More of a personal reason. There was a family tragedy, and I’m very close to my family, so I felt like Singapore was great workwise, and I would have continued for another 3-6-9 years actually! Thanks to them — they’ve been very… CNBC International, brilliant team. It’s a very lean team. One person does the job of five to six people. Yeah, it’s very lean overseas, and it was a great experience, but that tragedy — I wanted to be closer to home and family, simply speaking.
And, I mean, now that I’ve come back, I was talking to Radhika Gupta the other day from Edelweiss, and she’s like, now is the best time to come back to India, and to reset and start off again in India. Because even from a global standpoint, global investors are really eyeing India very favourably in every aspect. They’re really looking — I mean, when Indians talk about being bullish on India, that’s one thing. But when world leaders and global investors are talking about being bullish on India, that’s a completely different game. I mean, the fact that they hired me, right, was because it was really the “India Rising” story, the “Incredible India” story, that they wanted to capture via me. Now, because I have so much knowledge about global markets — they also put me in a position where I was a lead anchor of my show and was covering markets across the board. So that was a different story. But the fact of the matter is that over the last 10 years, more in India has changed. It has improved. And we, in fact, just started a newsletter — because I’m so much in love with CNBC International still; I have such great colleagues back in Singapore — you guys should subscribe to it. It’s called Inside India. It’s a weekly newsletter that comes out on Thursdays. Great newsletter. A friend of mine, Ganesh, in London, actually puts it together, and it really is giving global investors and onlookers basically an insight into the India story. So I think, yeah, that’s something to go with.
We wanted to know more about the business lessons you learned during your journey. What did Warren Buffett teach you or did Solomon teach you, anything that you learned during your journey?
It’s interesting. I haven’t ever put thought to that, but since you’ve asked me, let me think of the top three things I took away from my big interviews. One was that Warren Buffett is very keen to invest overseas. He’s sitting on $350 billions of cash. Some of it is parked in treasuries, which is giving him a risk-free return. The two-year is giving him 4%, treasuries are short-duration bonds, 4% risk-free, that is, and the ten-year benchmark in the US is giving a return of nearly 5%. So, he’s sitting on cash, and he really wants to invest in India. But what I learned from him, and his journey was that he always, always looked at buying full businesses — taking full ownership of businesses — rather than taking a minority stake. So that was my first learning. Because, of course, you need to have that business acumen, right? But his thing was: I won’t be able to have the greatest say in the business and the running of the business otherwise.
And if you see today, during the market meltdown just two weeks ago, Berkshire Hathaway was a stock — there’s a story that was carried out — it was a stock that outperformed the market. So, his business model is such that he’s always had complete control. He’s had a vision for the business he’s invested in, and his advice and his suggestions have been taken on board. And he’s not just an investor — I also think Warren Buffett is one of the best businessmen in the world. So, I think buying a full business, having a greater say in the business, was something I learned from Warren Buffett.
I think with Satya Nadella, it was his very pragmatic approach. I asked him about whether or not Microsoft would be announcing any job losses any time soon, and he did not give me a direct answer, even though I pressed him a couple of times, because that was the news doing the rounds at that time. It was rather interesting because November ’22 is when I interviewed him, and January ’23 is when they announced job losses. They announced about 10,000 job losses. So obviously, he was keeping his cards close to his chest — he didn’t tell me that. But what he did tell me is that shareholder return matters. And if it makes economic sense, then if people have to be let go, given the economic cycle, then one must take that decision. So, he said that in as many words. And so I thought he had a very practical approach towards business, not that he came across as unemotional or unattached to his business, but he seemed to be caring of all the stakeholders’ interests. Whether it was employees, board members, top management, or investors, he took on board the views and interests of all the people involved with the business.
Third — David Solomon, Goldman Sachs — I think his faith in the business. I interviewed David Solomon in 2019 when Goldman Sachs was going through a period of transition. He had just taken over the business from Lloyd Blankfein. The trading business was going through a slowdown. The fixed income business was going through a slowdown. But he was saying, “Look, I’m not going to downsize on fixed income.” And today, the trading business and the fixed income business — he wanted to get into wealth management, he wanted to get into consumer credit. All of those businesses, in due course, eroded shareholder value and took away from the overall business over the next six years. So, he kept his faith. He was quick on his feet. He rejuggled the business when it was required and ensured that the stock delivered, and profitability was not compromised. So much so that today, the trading business of Goldman Sachs is back as the running machine for the entire organisation. And they have kind of put aside the wealth management and consumer credit card plan that they had earlier on — with Apple Credit and stuff like that. So, I thought he had faith in the brand. He was a Goldman lifer, so obviously he had conviction in the business. He tried a few things, didn’t work out, course-corrected. That was something that really stood out in my interview with him. He was very quick to course-correct and align the business with what the demands of the economy were at that stage.
You’ve interviewed quite a few Indian business leaders as well, yeah. So what is the difference in their perspective and the perspective of the international business leaders when you compare them?
So, first question is about Indian businessmen. I think we have some great business leaders in India, and I’m so glad that I was able to give a platform to get so many of them to speak on an international news network. I think that was primarily my job. So, 11:30 to 12 Singapore time, we would interview a big Indian business leader or a big investor. I’ve interviewed — God bless him — Rakesh Jhunjhunwala as well, many times during the election, also in 2019. So, big Indian investors, big business leaders from India. And they’re so eloquent. They are so on top of their game. They, you know, they are so knowledgeable. Indians have the big brains, and that is something that I really realised after joining CNBC International and CNBC Asia, because they do really respect what Indian business leaders and Indian businesses have created. They genuinely do, and they genuinely want to learn more about Indian businesses.
When I interviewed Mrs. Nita Ambani — and she spoke to me after, I think, 15 years — it was an exclusive that she gave to CNBC Asia after 15 years. You know, everybody in the newsroom was really, really amazed and impressed by the way she spoke about the business outlook, the macroeconomic situation in India, how she’s wanting to host the Olympics. So, I really feel like Indian business leaders should come out there and talk more, because a lot of Indian businesses are now going global, right? I interviewed Kumar Mangalam Birla, and he was talking about how 50% of his group’s revenues — that’s the Birla Group’s revenues — are from overseas entities. So, it’s an India-domiciled business, a conglomerate which has global presence. And a lot of people want to know about these businesses, right? The same is the case with Reliance and many of the other businesses. Observe how India’s pharmaceutical companies are supplying generics to the generics market in the US; they are supplying active pharmaceutical ingredients, because of which Pfizer and other companies like Novo Nordisk in the West can manufacture their drugs. And so, India is the second biggest generics market. India is the second biggest API market. China, of course, holds the number one position. So, I think in a lot of ways, Indian businessmen have a great vision. When I have to compare them to global business leaders, it’s just that global business leaders — obviously, you know, if you have somebody from Goldman Sachs or from Microsoft, right — they are based in the US. They are based in the world’s largest economy, and so there is that thing that, you know, they have a slightly more broad worldview, in the sense they can compare markets easily, in the sense that they can talk about what strategy would apply to what market because they have teams deployed everywhere. So, I think that’s the only difference — that they’re running global businesses from the US, which is the world’s largest economy, and Indian business leaders are trying to go global from the world’s fifth-largest economy right now. Fifth, going on to fourth. So, so that’s something — that’s the only distinction, I feel. And I think as India progresses and becomes the third-largest economy by 2030, it’s going to be a game-changer, really, for Indian business leaders. And I think it’s only a matter of time before they’ll be rubbing shoulders with global leaders as well.
Would you interview Donald Trump now?
Hmm. I don’t think I need to interview him, ma’am. He has Truth Social — he has his own platform to say what he wants to say when he wants to say it, which is usually 3:00 AM in the night, US time. Because around that time, I remember — just before coming back, I think through the month of Feb, 9:00 AM I would just get miked up, get set, ready. 9:30 Singapore time is when the China markets would open, and from 9:00 onward, the Reuters feed would start sending flashes from Truth Social: “Donald Trump is saying so and so about China,” “Donald Trump wants to engage with China,” “Donald Trump wants to meet Xi Jinping,” or “There’s going to be a June summit.” I’d be so stressed out about him — this is live on air. So I don’t think he needs journalists. He knows how to get his message across, and he has his own platform to do so. I’m not in the running, if you want to ask me that, to interview him. I think, yeah, he’s quite outspoken.
You are an equity investor through mutual funds. So which businesses would you advise for a five-year long term?
I think pharmaceuticals, because again, it has global presence, it’s a defensive business. So, a lot of people, a lot of global investors who are looking at the Indian market are eyeing pharmaceuticals. They are eyeing the Indian IT outsourcing industry. Financials in India — not so much NBFCs, but more the private banks. And, you know, among PSU banks, obviously SBI has really made a mark for itself.
Infrastructure — that’s a good one. So I asked a lot of investors about infrastructure. They don’t completely understand how the story is playing out in India in terms of the ownership, in terms of the execution. Though I must say that on the debt side, as far as fixed income financing is concerned, a lot of investors are feeling more confident about coming to the Indian market now. And so yeah, that is one area where people are not very sure about returns. The consumer story in India — the Indian consumer, the rise of the Indian consumer — is something that is very compelling for global investors. Infrastructure, I think, is debatable, but I think they would also like… it’s not coming to me immediately… I think some of the NBFCs — again, an extension of the financialisation that we are seeing. So, banks and NBFCs I already mentioned. So, I think these are the three, four, five sectors that they find very safe while investing in India. Also, telecom is coming up in a big way. So that could be one fifth sector as well, because obviously betting on India’s connectivity — improving connectivity, 5G, improved spectrum. I think a lot of investors, before I came back, before I resigned — I think over the course of the last six months — were talking about how they were very big on telecom and the Reliance Jio IPO, impending IPO, likely to hit the markets. I think that’s a big one that people are interested in.
Many of us here have children and grandchildren moving away from India for six to eight years, and they are very reluctant to come back. And they’re completely unaware of what is happening in India. Most of them have got into the habit of Instagram. They don’t read any newspapers. So what do we do for such people? Making them — you are inspiring, you know that — you come back, and according to me, there are great opportunities. But how do you get them — get this message across, so that more and more come back and contribute to our economy?
That’s true. I really feel like more and more Indians should come back. And you know, if you look at the China model, that’s primarily what China’s based on. So, a lot of Chinese do their grad and master’s overseas. They work for the likes of Google and Microsoft for a few years, and then they come back and use that knowledge to help their own. I wish more and more Indians also felt that way. I should, you know, give Radhika Gupta’s number to you, because she gave me a great answer to this question just a few days ago. Radhika Gupta heads an asset management company, and she gave me a great answer. She, I think, read a research piece — or I think she came across a study — she was saying how in Ivy League schools in the US, actually, for the first time in many years, more Indians are preferring to come back and take jobs in India after completing their MBA and higher education.
So if you go by that, it seems like it is starting to happen, but not maybe at the pace at which we would like. But very clearly, from my experience, and the experience of the people I speak to: abroad is not home, Sir. That is — yes, it’s very comfortable, yes. Yeah.
In Singapore — everywhere — you know, you can get anywhere in about 15 minutes. And so, I’m still getting used to the roads out here, the traffic and everything. But I think in terms of infrastructure development, in terms of lifestyle, India has really, really seen a lot of improvement. It has gone from leaps to — leaps and bounds — in terms of how lifestyle changes have happened, how you’re seeing social mobility, you know, per capita income going up. Yeah, you can always, you know, go on to the other side and say, “Oh, but it’s not enough. Look at China.” But China has a different model. And India — I always say, India is — you know, you should look at India as an elephant. It moves slowly, but it moves surely.
So I think it’s only a matter of time before people overseas — Indians overseas, your children, grandchildren — realise that, you know, in your friends’ circle as well, realise that, and come back. I think there’s a fair amount of opportunity in India. And right now, by the way, it’s the other way around. With whatever is happening with US politics, you know, people are a little bit wary of being in the Western world or even staying in Europe for that matter.
Most are coming back because they don’t get the visa extension, but still. Yet it’s a fact.
One way or the other — first come back to India, then get used to India, then never leave India, right?